| Author | Post |
|---|
velobella
Administrator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 03:51 am |
|
thanks everyone for all the lovely well wishes and offers to help. It really means a lot to me.
For those who need an update, I crashed at the track on Friday night and have been in the hospital all weekend. Damage done is concussion, broken collarbone, 4 broken ribs and a bruised lung. But I am home now and on my way to recovery, and watching the tour all day.
See you all out there!
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: |    |
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 04:02 am |
|
good thing you never cancelled your cable....
heal fast!
|
velobella
Administrator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 04:11 am |
|
| procrastination pays again!
|
grr-apey
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Sun Aug 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 36 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 01:16 pm |
|
Heal Fast Sabine!
April
|
LLLocke55
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Berkeley, California |
| Posts: | 350 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 03:55 pm |
|
What a fun stage today...I'm glad that there is something fun for you to watch and watch and watch...lots of daily coverage. And, you get to hang with the kitties all day...yay!
Heal fast.
|
marjamison
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Reno |
| Posts: | 70 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 03:59 pm |
|
Ouch! D'oh! Lots of happy healing vibes to you, Sabine!
Nevada
|
velobella
Administrator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 04:07 pm |
|
for those emailing about clothing, dont worry, we will still get to it (i have lots of help) but its still on its way ..I will post the tracking number in the clothing thread. And we'll all get to it when it arrives
sorry, typing is too hard to respond to each email individually
|
allieburch
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Patterson, New York USA |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 04:18 pm |
|
Get better Sabine! I'm sorry that happened and I'm sorry to hear about your jersey too. :o(
remember:
Each concussion is one step closer to you becoming a downhiller. ;-)
Glad you're gonna be ok.
|
jeninsb
Administrator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 06:16 pm |
|
feel better soon!
nice of them to throw a bike race for you to watch while you're recovering!
|
Miss Mary
VB Team Member
|
Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 08:45 pm |
|
Sabine, I'm glad you liked the chile verde, which was disguised as arroz con pollo (mexican rice with chicken)
-mm
|
Girl Ryan
VB Team Member
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 04:53 am |
|
Owie! Get better!!! Dang... it always seems to happens at once..
|
angiekoppacelli
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Winter Park, CO |
| Posts: | 22 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 01:00 pm |
|
Sabine, Get better soon, sending lots of healing vibes your way, look at you, all worried about the clothing order....sheesh!!
|
Trileeloo
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 98 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 03:31 pm |
|
So sorry to hear the news!
Best wishes for quick healing, Sabine!
Marjie (Minnesota)
|
evilpanda
Administrator
| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Minneapolis, Mn |
| Posts: | 30 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 03:38 pm |
|
ack!!! heal fast!
|
Andi Smith
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Sat Dec 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Menlo Park, CA |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 04:52 pm |
|
I have to say, that was an ugly crash. I think 3 ambulances at the track is a new record! Not to mention all the angst and anxiety from everyone who witnessed the crash...it wasn't pretty.
Heal fast, glad you are out of the hospital!
--Andi
|
lizben
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 47 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 05:35 pm |
|
Ouch,ouch,ouch. I'm shuddering thinking about your crash.
Heal quickly. Healing vibes are coming your way.
|
disco piper
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Winter Park, CO |
| Posts: | 43 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 11:48 pm |
|
DAH! Feel better fast!
Good thing chicks who crash are sexy!
|
Christie
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | MInneapolis, MN |
| Posts: | 13 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 01:22 am |
|
| Get well soon Sabine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
Quicksilvergrl
VB Team Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 03:45 am |
|
Oh you sweet thing!!!!! Ouch, oh, ouch,..........get better soon. We need your hot bod on a bike ASAP
Hug's.......er, soft hug's,
Sher
|
Cathy Boland
Administrator
| Joined: | Thu Dec 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Andrews, NC |
| Posts: | 217 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 03:59 am |
|
Zowie! You are supposed to keep the RUBBER side down woman!
Glad you are (relatively) ok and hope you feel better soon. Did you get some good happy drugs to take home with you? I find that wine and Percocet play quite nicely together. 
|
angela_brown
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbia, Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 50 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 01:40 pm |
|
Ouch!! So sorry to hear about this Sabine!!
Heal well. Thinking of you....
It's amazing how important the TV becomes at times like this  I could use it as a clothes hanger any other time and be fine. Kinda saves the sanity. Thank God for the Tour!
|
yentna
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Park City, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 161 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 03:44 pm |
|
I've gotta agree with Allie - you're that much closer to downhilling! We hardly EVER get hurt as badly....track sounds scary!
Hugs and good wishes!
|
Cathy Boland
Administrator
| Joined: | Thu Dec 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Andrews, NC |
| Posts: | 217 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 03:57 pm |
|
crashes as bad as Sabine's are relatively rare at the track too. And I don't think crashes at the track are any more frequent than road racing or mtb racing.
I primarily raced and trained at the track for ~13 years and only crashed once. I really have no idea how many times I've gone down on the road or on the dirt. More than once each, that is for sure.
Let's face it, competive cycling, no matter what discipline you choose, isn't for wusses.
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:40 pm |
|
things have been bad at the track this year--way more crashes--almost all serious
i think primarily related to so many new racers at the track
and an imbalance in overall new rider strength vs fundamental track skills/experience
|
Cathy Boland
Administrator
| Joined: | Thu Dec 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Andrews, NC |
| Posts: | 217 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:54 pm |
|
| Hellyer does need a better beginner training system. Unfortunately it sounds as if the power structure there is not open to change.
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:58 pm |
|
| I sent a letter to the Board President after this last crash discussing just that. He was pleasant about it and obviously concerned about the serious crashes, but didn't seem too interested in making any big changes.
|
Cathy Boland
Administrator
| Joined: | Thu Dec 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Andrews, NC |
| Posts: | 217 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 05:04 pm |
|
Yeah - that is about what I would have expected. The racers are gonna have to stage a revolt or something. And someone or a group of someones will have to volunteer to head up the new training program.
Dick Lane in Atlanta requires either a 4 week training course (miss one session and you don't graduate) or a concentrated weekend training seminar to be able to race or train at the track. It isn't perfect, but it helps alot. Hellyer needs something like that. Just going out for a couple of training sessions on Saturdays doesn't cut it. You really need something more formal to make sure everyone gets the same information and experience.
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 05:30 pm |
|
I'm glad someone agrees! Actually, most people I talk to feel similarly. John said that the instructors are all volunteers and, more or less, that they are doing the best that they can. So I think you are right, it might take someone to take it on. Sigh. This is important to me, but as I live 3 hours from the track, I just can't do it.
No one even verifies that people do the 3 practice sessions before they race--I know some people don't do them all. Some type of curriculum would be nice as I found that there was much variation between sessions. And somebody should decide if a rider is ready--you should have to actually "pass" the training.
Well, I did say all that in my letter.
So my solution for me for now is that I am not doing any mass start races at our track. I just don't feel it is safe enough to be worth the risk. So lots of 500meter practice for me!!
|
Miss Mary
VB Team Member
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 06:03 pm |
|
| nevermind Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 11:19 pm by Miss Mary
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 06:38 pm |
|
| you always matter miss mary!!
|
velobella
Administrator
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 09:53 pm |
|
I dont think the answer is as easy as better beginner training. Not that its not important (and I know for a fact that its on the top of the board's discussion topics).
I have been to almost a dozen beginner sessions and have even taught some myself and I still crashed. I take complete responsibility for my crash. (I should not have tried to bunny hop a leg). Not once was I ever taught not to try and bunny hop in a crash situation. Because, really how can you teach every single accident scenario?
I dont think there are more unsafe riders, I just think there is a great influx of riders and activity and eventually the odds of crashing just go up purely due to chance.
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 10:09 pm |
|
Because this is not in our private section, I am being a little circuitous, but I thought you told me your crash was caused by someone else overlapping/touching their front wheel on someone else's back wheel.
So I wasn't at all trying to say that you were an unsafe rider.
And I am not trying to say there are a bunch of unsafe riders. I think there are a lot of riders who really don't even realize what they need to do to be safe at the track. Not overlapping wheels, always looking before moving, being aware of riders around you--these are all things many people get away without always doing on the road. On the track, the consequences are more severe. I think we need to take a step back and improve the learning of those fundamentals, even by experienced roadies.
There are way more crashes per rider on the track this year than on the road. I don't think we should attribute this to chance. We have an opportunity to make changes and prevent some (we'll never prevent all) of the future crashes.
|
Cathy Boland
Administrator
| Joined: | Thu Dec 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Andrews, NC |
| Posts: | 217 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 10:57 pm |
|
velobella wrote: I dont think the answer is as easy as better beginner training. Not that its not important (and I know for a fact that its on the top of the board's discussion topics).
I have been to almost a dozen beginner sessions and have even taught some myself and I still crashed. I take complete responsibility for my crash. (I should not have tried to bunny hop a leg). Not once was I ever taught not to try and bunny hop in a crash situation. Because, really how can you teach every single accident scenario?
I dont think there are more unsafe riders, I just think there is a great influx of riders and activity and eventually the odds of crashing just go up purely due to chance.
I wasn't trying to attribute blame for the crash to anyone. I wasn't there and I don't know the story. But in my experience, a high percentage of crashes at the track means that there are alot of inexperienced, poorly taught riders out there. I've heard that Hellyer doesn't have a good beginner training program, so there you go.
If the crash was caused by an overlapping wheel, then it was stupid mistake that possibly could have been avoided by better beginner classes. And not to disparage your riding capability, but this is what, your second season on the track? IMO that isn't enough experience to teach other beginners. You need someone out there teaching that has years of experience on the track. Why hasn't the Hellyer staff tried to encourage some of the more experienced riders to teach?
As to trying to bunny hop the crash, well, yeah that was pretty stupid. :-) Even one of my courses wouldn't have told you not to do that. It would never occur to me to try and bunny hop anything on a fixed gear bike. But I would have told you to try and go up track if possible in the event of a crash.
|
velobella
Administrator
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 11:33 pm |
|
Cathy Boland wrote: velobella wrote: I dont think the answer is as easy as better beginner training. Not that its not important (and I know for a fact that its on the top of the board's discussion topics).
I have been to almost a dozen beginner sessions and have even taught some myself and I still crashed. I take complete responsibility for my crash. (I should not have tried to bunny hop a leg). Not once was I ever taught not to try and bunny hop in a crash situation. Because, really how can you teach every single accident scenario?
I dont think there are more unsafe riders, I just think there is a great influx of riders and activity and eventually the odds of crashing just go up purely due to chance.
I wasn't trying to attribute blame for the crash to anyone. I wasn't there and I don't know the story. But in my experience, a high percentage of crashes at the track means that there are alot of inexperienced, poorly taught riders out there. I've heard that Hellyer doesn't have a good beginner training program, so there you go.
If the crash was caused by an overlapping wheel, then it was stupid mistake that possibly could have been avoided by better beginner classes. And not to disparage your riding capability, but this is what, your second season on the track? IMO that isn't enough experience to teach other beginners. You need someone out there teaching that has years of experience on the track. Why hasn't the Hellyer staff tried to encourage some of the more experienced riders to teach?
As to trying to bunny hop the crash, well, yeah that was pretty stupid. :-) Even one of my courses wouldn't have told you not to do that. It would never occur to me to try and bunny hop anything on a fixed gear bike. But I would have told you to try and go up track if possible in the event of a crash.
I've been told a million times to go uptrack and to not stop pedaling. (There was no time for me to change directions fyi)
And the bunny hop thing was a deep seated reaction of mine that came from too many years of mountain biking over objects. Its gotten me out of a few jams on the road, and its very obvious that its worng on the track, but there's no way to override "emergency behavior" unless you phuscially practice it. So I would have had to practice running over things in my way....not something I would have done. Although, if a similar accident presents itself to me again (lordy no!) I bet something in my system would take over and would not let me hop.
A good drill would be to practice pedaling in unusual circumstances I suppose.
|
velobella
Administrator
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 11:41 pm |
|
bunny wrote: Because this is not in our private section, I am being a little circuitous, but I thought you told me your crash was caused by someone else overlapping/touching their front wheel on someone else's back wheel.
So I wasn't at all trying to say that you were an unsafe rider.
And I am not trying to say there are a bunch of unsafe riders. I think there are a lot of riders who really don't even realize what they need to do to be safe at the track. Not overlapping wheels, always looking before moving, being aware of riders around you--these are all things many people get away without always doing on the road. On the track, the consequences are more severe. I think we need to take a step back and improve the learning of those fundamentals, even by experienced roadies.
There are way more crashes per rider on the track this year than on the road. I don't think we should attribute this to chance. We have an opportunity to make changes and prevent some (we'll never prevent all) of the future crashes.
Yes, the original crash was caused by someone overlapping wheels. But that someone has had plenty of beginner sessions and had been told to not overlap wheels. So, what do you do in that case? This particular situation is something that goes beyond beginner sessions. Sometimes a person can be safe in beginner sessions, and it isnt until they are out in racing situations that dangerous behaviors are known. What do you do then? Do promotors have the right to exclude someone from racing? On what grounds and what criteria? Thats the question I want to get to at Hellyer.
My crash was made worse because I stopped pedaling. Thats the part I am taking responsibility for. (And I have only come to realize this after I saw my pedals. The cleats were ripped off my shoes and still on the pedals of my bike.) Of course, with the physics of falling, who knows, but I do accept responsibility for how I stopped pedaling (although I have no memory of it!)
And I am not saying to not make changes, I just dont want to be short sighted about the type of change requests we make.
|
bunny
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 362 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 11:48 pm |
|
I think that you need to "pass" to move on from the beginner sessions. Like a checklist or something of skills that need to be approved before moving to Tues/Wed night racing. Or maybe some intermediate sessions before T/W nights that allow more race/pack situation skills and observation. And then no Friday night racing until you are a cat 3.
Doesn't have to be those exact rules, but something. Some sort of guidelines that need to be followed.
|
jeninsb
Administrator
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 12:22 am |
|
@ sabine, bunny-hopping. wow, that would be a really hard impulse to over-ride for me also - especially if the alternative was riding over someone. and in fact, i had to sit here and think about why it's a problem on a fixie, never having ridden one. i think i'd have to spend a crap-load of time on a fixie, so that it was really burned into my brain how the bike handles differently than my other bikes, and what exit routes are and aren't open. i'm not sure that's something that someone can just tell you...
|
connie
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Thu Mar 6th, 2008 |
| Location: | Sandy, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 89 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 02:14 am |
|
I agree - I read this and thought WHOA - it would take me an eternity to erase the bunnyhopping instinct. Yikes!
Glad you're... well, at least as alright as you are! That sounds like a horrific wreck. Heal up!
|
chezza
VB Team Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 15 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Frizzle-frazzle: | |
|
Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 11:20 pm |
|
